PSA Villagers and Mending

Once again villager trading is disabled due to balance issues, this time related to super cheap enchanted books ( like mending ). Unfortunately because they were available so cheap it completely undermines the balance of blacksmith and enchanter jobs.

Anyone that has large quantities of mending books is asked to either diposal them or contact a staff lead / creator for disposal. We will be refunding the books with the emeralds/ equiv trade materials as best we can. We hope you understand our reasoning. You may keep a small quantity ( like 5 per person) for personal use, and not for selling.

At this point, I personally am getting tired of having to deal with villagers, and i would love to hear why people love them so much ( besides the broken cheap trades ).

EDIT 1
Never said or meant to imply they would be disabled forever, this is just an announcement about it being disabled again now.

The reason cheap enchanted books destroy a large part of the player economy is two fold. The first is enchanter job, whats the point of enchanter if I can get any enchant for a stack of pumpkins? The second is strictly mending, its already a broken mechanic that we were semi ok with being in the game when it was rare. Now that everyone (whos not new) has it on basically every tool, whats the point of blacksmith job? No one will use repairs if they have mending on everything. This combination breaks a couple of very player dependent jobs, and a large part of the multiplayer game economy.

EDIT 2
Poll related to mending if anyone wants to chime in: https://www.omniverse.rocks/threads/mending-balance.754/

EDIT 3
A couple more points. I find it pretty funny people always cheer when we add things to make broken vanilla things easier, and always complain when we try to make broken vanilla things harder. I bet yall will cheer if we modify phantoms whenever we get plugin access.

Just for clarity, I haven't used villagers or mending at all to get baltop. ( I don't use them at all ) Hence me asking what people find interesting/fun about them.
 
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Comments

MagicMerchant

Member
Oct 12, 2019
26
10
8
Very sad day and I wasn't even selling anything from villagers :(

Villagers are fun because they add another dimension to the game. It's not just strip mining and standing semi afk at spawners. We can do other stuff in the game and get something from it. Building things actually serve a purpose also.

If books is the problem can't they just be handled in some other way? Just disable librarians perhaps? Though I personally don't see how they destroy anything.

Having villagers disabled is like removing 70% of the game and making it quite boring imo.

Hope you reconsider because I don't think I'm the only person that lost all motivation to play here after reading this post.
 

hamsterkris

New member
Oct 12, 2019
6
9
3
Ok so I'm probably going to quit I suppose, villagers were 90% of things I have left to do ingame. I'm basically done with the grinds. I was going to open a shop but a third of what I was going to sell I can't now.

There's only so many nerfs you can do and features you can remove before a game stops being fun. It's up to you of course, but yeah my motivation to play just disappeared.
 

Freizeitsoldat

New member
Dec 25, 2019
18
3
3
There is a extreme problem !

I could enchant items, but i will need a lot of xp to enchant even 1 sword. And with the new mechanics, those spawner will not give you the ammount you need. AND most of the jobupgrades for enchanter, are still not working, so you will not get enough profit !!??

I could try to get jobitems, or anvil equipt ... But jobitems only give you 2% bonus, so they are only nive to have.
Anvil items are hard to build. It is nearly impossible to get the mats you need.

Make changes to the anvil repair, why is it cheaper to combine with a new tool/weapon ?

So make changes to the jobs, needed xp and income .. not to the alternative !?
You broke the game completly now !?

I try to make a shop and people like the spawners i provide. But things get boring, if there is no change to get something out of it !?
 
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Wazler

New member
Feb 12, 2020
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Yup lets just disable a whole update of the game because "Balance". So what if enchantment books are cheap. Make the other jobs better seeing how its your own plugin. Enchanter is only good for custom enchants and they are great so there is that reward. Blacksmith can repair things that cant have mending on the IE your infinity bows. But you will lose people and im also debating on it seeing how finding 10 pristine diamonds at a reasonable amount of time is a JOKE they are being sold at 20k a piece how about we balance that instead of disabling a main part of the game for some people.

EDIT: bc we can do that to justify dumb answers, do not try to balance a player economy if there is no main server shop. Secondly HOW DO YOU KNOW people dont have secret stashes of these books they will give to there friends or start charging outrageous prices. Thirdly this only hurts new players. A development teams first priority is keeping the player base wanting to come back and play on their server. Bottle necks of progression and removable of content while leaving /faq a near useless outdated mess will have players leaving for other servers. Don't forget what OCTA was bc i think your starting to
 
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Zemoj

Code Wizard
Staff Member
Apr 2, 2019
43
9
8
Yup lets just disable a whole update of the game because "Balance". So what if enchantment books are cheap. Make the other jobs better seeing how its your own plugin. Enchanter is only good for custom enchants and they are great so there is that reward. Blacksmith can repair things that cant have mending on the IE your infinity bows. But you will lose people and im also debating on it seeing how finding 10 pristine diamonds at a reasonable amount of time is a JOKE they are being sold at 20k a piece how about we balance that instead of disabling a main part of the game for some people.

EDIT: bc we can do that to justify dumb answers, do not try to balance a player economy if there is no main server shop. Secondly HOW DO YOU KNOW people dont have secret stashes of these books they will give to there friends or start charging outrageous prices. Thirdly this only hurts new players. A development teams first priority is keeping the player base wanting to come back and play on their server. Bottle necks of progression and removable of content while leaving /faq a near useless outdated mess will have players leaving for other servers. Don't forget what OCTA was bc i think your starting to
Wazler I find the reference to Octa somewhat offensive since he never had to deal with 1.14 villager balance issues. As far as his ideas on mending, he was going to make it a tome:

 

hamsterkris

New member
Oct 12, 2019
6
9
3
I leveled Enchanter because I wanted Drill3 and stuff. Molten touch, Plunder 3, Array 2, so many awesome enchants that you can't get from villagers. I used to run a bookstore on sol, I had every single vanilla book. I still sold tons of xp buckets. The books helped new people, they were the ones who bought them the most iirc.

I leveled blacksmith for jobitems and anvilcrafting. The jobitems are almost useless though and the dia to make an anvilcrafted chestplate would cost 80k. Not everyone can afford that. I did not level blacksmith because I like repairing shovels for $10 in jobmoney and random requests from players.
 

MagicMerchant

Member
Oct 12, 2019
26
10
8
To the edits. We have custom enchants that people want. There is always an use for enchanters because of this.


A lot of the economy is "broken" even without villagers imo which is why im mostly staying outside of it. Most jobs give close to nothing for time, clicks and materials invested in relation to others. Some do nothing with villagers disabled (farmer is almost useless since its money is balanced around trading in food for emeralds).

If I care about money im not helping another player repair his item. Its just not worth it for the money.
Though im not playing this game to earn ingame $.

EDIT: And yeah it might not be permanent disabled. But how long? Each day is one day is one day im spending doing other things, eventually trying different servers or games and by 2-3 weeks im probably gone forever because its risky to devote time when you remember that this can happen again without any notice.
 
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spc_Jester_USA

New member
Dec 1, 2019
11
7
3
let me preface everything by saying this:

I love this server and was thrilled to see it has returned after it disappeared. I know you and 12 aren't Octa, and you're doing your best to keep the spirit of Mayhem Multiverse alive and well.
Keep doing your best! Keep asking for feedback!
Know I value the time and effort you guys and the staff put in to make this server what it is.

Why disable vanilla content? I mean really? I understand wanting to have "balance" but if everyone has roughly equal access to villagers, or at least equal opportunity to obtain access to them, that's balance! Disabling vanilla content because of "balance" feels like a cop-out. Nerfing should not be the default reaction to anything and everything. It's easy to scream "balance issues" when the top balances are well into the millions and the rest of the servers is floundering with 20-70 k (not an insignificant amount of money, but nothing compared to the balances which amassed the seed money for giant shops BEFORE all the nerfing)

- I truly appreciate the time and efforts you and 12 put in Zemoj, but if you want a player-driven economy, let the players drive the economy, and take your hands off the wheel so to speak. Otherwise set up a server shop and regulate prices.

- If you really can't stand the fact that players can buy enchanted books from librarians, make it so that lecterns cant be crafted. That way librarians can't be made. they would need to be caught as zombies and cured, or captured from villages.

- Leave the naturally spawned lecterns in place and have them regulate scarcity and cost by nature of, well being scarce.
The supply will drop significantly, and thus the price will regulate and stabilize.


My final say on this topic is that every couple of weeks you remove a feature, for balance or some other reason. Conversely, I haven't seen much new content. Nor have I seen OLD vanilla content (Village and Pillage: Crossbows, and Shields Aquatic: Tridents and their respective enchantments) debugged and brought on board. This is supposed to be a vanilla plus survival plus server yes? Then why does it feel like I can do more in vanilla Minecraft than I can in horizons? I look forward to the day the concerns listed are addressed and the villager trading is once again restored. I'm sorry if it comes across as harsh, but this is an honest review.
 

Wazler

New member
Feb 12, 2020
9
0
1
Wazler I find the reference to Octa somewhat offensive since he never had to deal with 1.14 villager balance issues. As far as his ideas on mending, he was going to make it a tome:

Sorry you find it offensive typically it dosent hurt if its not true we had mending, in monuments and the econ didnt collapse under his feet, you got it from sand temples and fishing. And if Vanilla is too good then make your mod etc better not shame and nerf the competition
 

Wazler

New member
Feb 12, 2020
9
0
1
Once again villager trading is disabled due to balance issues, this time related to super cheap enchanted books ( like mending ). Unfortunately because they were available so cheap it completely undermines the balance of blacksmith and enchanter jobs.

Anyone that has large quantities of mending books is asked to either diposal them or contact a staff lead / creator for disposal. We will be refunding the books with the emeralds/ equiv trade materials as best we can. We hope you understand our reasoning. You may keep a small quantity ( like 5 per person) for personal use, and not for selling.

At this point, I personally am getting tired of having to deal with villagers, and i would love to hear why people love them so much ( besides the broken cheap trades ).

EDIT 1
Never said or meant to imply they would be disabled forever, this is just an announcement about it being disabled again now.

The reason cheap enchanted books destroy a large part of the player economy is two fold. The first is enchanter job, whats the point of enchanter if I can get any enchant for a stack of pumpkins? The second is strictly mending, its already a broken mechanic that we were semi ok with being in the game when it was rare. Now that everyone (whos not new) has it on basically every tool, whats the point of blacksmith job? No one will use repairs if they have mending on everything. This combination breaks a couple of very player dependent jobs, and a large part of the multiplayer game economy.

EDIT 2
Poll related to mending if anyone wants to chime in: https://www.omniverse.rocks/threads/mending-balance.754/

EDIT 3
A couple more points. I find it pretty funny people always cheer when we add things to make broken vanilla things easier, and always complain when we try to make broken vanilla things harder. I bet yall will cheer if we modify phantoms whenever we get plugin access.

Just for clarity, I haven't used villagers or mending at all to get baltop. ( I don't use them at all ) Hence me asking what people find interesting/fun about them.

As for what makes villagers fun is their econ their little pocket world, many love making towns filled with villagers they can trade with and amase emeralds like they're some mayor, if you intend to limit villagers in anyway just mess with librarians leave the farms blacksmiths and fishers and rest of them alone
 

MagicMerchant

Member
Oct 12, 2019
26
10
8
A couple more points. I find it pretty funny people always cheer when we add things to make broken vanilla things easier, and always complain when we try to make broken vanilla things harder. I bet yall will cheer if we modify phantoms whenever we get plugin access.


Just for clarity, I haven't used villagers or mending at all to get baltop. ( I don't use them at all ) Hence me asking what people find interesting/fun about them.
Welcome to game design. People will almost never cheer for games being made "hard" by increasing numbers. You have to take the route around it and add new things that then can be harder than current content. Tweaking current things people are used to to be harder will just result in sad players and eventually a dead game. Example A: Diablo 3

Though you guys did get praise for fighting zero tick farms. So don't say people don't thanks when mega broken things (in players favor) are fixed :(

Well some of us don't play for the economy. It looked interesting at first but after seeing mob spawners being allowed meant it was flawed from the core. Cute things like Builder allowing us to gain over a million per day with just a stack of bricks going on for weeks didn't give much confidence in the $ either.

Mob spawners is probably the most broken mechanic in the game by a wide margin imo (after zero tick farms). But it's a part of the game for ages. So it's not reasonable to remove it (the genie is out of the bottle so to speak). The option here would be to add new zones with harder mobs to make spawners near obsolete. Or tweak custom mods so they don't benefit from this but even that is kinda too late.
 

hamsterkris

New member
Oct 12, 2019
6
9
3
Just for clarity, I haven't used villagers or mending at all to get baltop. ( I don't use them at all ) Hence me asking what people find interesting/fun about them.
I checked your /j stats zemoj all, and you don't seem to be doing much that actually uses up durability on tools. You don't dig, you mine a bit but you don't cut down trees. You don't seem to flatten since your excavator level is too low. If you don't use mending or have a need to use mending, then why are you so boneset on changing something that affects everyone negatively except you?

We're all playing the same game here, but we all have different preferences on how to play the game. We all think different things are fun. It feels like you're completely disregarding this when you say that "my way is the only way that is good or valid". It also feels like you're trying to force people to play the way you are, not because they want to but because you think people aren't conforming to your ideas on what the benefit of the blacksmith job is.

I always have the blacksmith job equipped, always, but it's not because I want to do repairs for every player on the server. I use it all the time, I craft stuff, I salvage, I repair my own things when I don't feel like waiting for xp for my tools. Blacksmith is useful, but the uses might not be what you envision. I understand what you're trying to do and I understand the balance issues, but this isn't the way to do it. It's going to affect the enjoyment of the majority of the players more negatively than the balance issues will.
 

Zemoj

Code Wizard
Staff Member
Apr 2, 2019
43
9
8
If you don't use mending or have a need to use mending, then why are you so boneset on changing something that affects everyone negatively except you?
As Magic said, welcome to game design. I have to weigh individuals short term wants against the long term health of the server. A couple people were implying that you needed mending or villagers to be on baltop, so thats what i was referencing with my statement.

It feels like you're completely disregarding this when you say that "my way is the only way that is good or valid". It also feels like you're trying to force people to play the way you are, not because they want to but because you think people aren't conforming to your ideas on what the benefit of the blacksmith job is.
Really? cause that's exactly how it sounds when people say they need free mending on everything, when its only been available at this quantity since we rebooted the server, and not the 6 years or so before.

I get that it makes your life easier, but is that worth it if the server dies? In multiplayer a big part of the game is other people, and while not everyone needs to participate we sort of need a critical mass to keep things going long term.