Let's talk about some things.

DragonBlood

Member
Documancer
Sep 28, 2019
39
21
8
24
There's a number of thoughts that I have going through my head for the server. So I'm just going to make a huge essay. It's a bit of a rant. Had to break it into pieces because it was too large.


Farming Rant
While there are some exploits that should be obvious to players, others are not so much. I feel that I need to express my view on this. Jobs have a vast breadth to them, and the intent behind the jobs is not always carried through with it. Miner is pretty clear in this, but Demolitionist is not so much. It's meant to destroy structures, and this seems to apply to both player built and the fortresses generated by the game. However, it's possible to view it as an unintended strategy for Demolitionist to focus exclusively on pre-generated structures.

To take this further, I want to focus on the Farmer job. As it is, it's intended to only be used in towns, and the player is supposed to know this though the jobs info stating "town only" for the crops. This is from my perspective an unnecessary nerf on the job. Instead of allowing farmers to just farm, it has to be farming on specific land. Assuming that the reasoning behind this is because of the expansive land in wastelands, allowing you to utilize more land, you have to ask, will it always stop there? Minecraft defies gravity, you can build as high as 256 blocks up, suspended by nothing. I'd say that making a 50 story farming skyscraper yields more farmland than the 16x16 plot on the floor, so now that must be considered an exploit to build farms over other farms.

I have always viewed towns as a way to protect people's builds only. Growth has to be throttled to make room for other people however, so others can also build and protect their land. However, the role of the town is not only to protect people, but to cut them off at the kneecaps when trying to utilize land for things other than utility.

Yes it takes work to build a farm higher in a town, but it also takes work to establish a farm in the wastelands. And it's not without penalties already. Grief is fair-game and when it's reset any farmland is gone.

Alright, let's change gears a little bit here and focus on some other jobs: Miner, Arborist, and Excavator. All three of these jobs is usually leveled in the wastelands, clearing out caves, chopping trees, or tearing up deserts. However, they can also be leveled in towns. There are ores underneath the soil even in town. Certainly a limited amount, but they exist. Should it be limited only to the town due to the fact of more land to mined being available in the wastelands? This applies equally to excavator, less dirt than stone, but dirt gives more experience anyways. So should it be limited only to town. Arborist even more than the others, it's resources are replenishable, it should certainly fall into the same category as farmer! As a note here, miner is listed as wilderness only, but works in town.

Just because a job is capable of being leveled in a way others don't level does not make it evil. Just because a farmer is farming outside of their town doesn't mean it shouldn't be counted to farmer. The point of resource is to provide for players without cluttering or destroying the towny server. It should be providing for farmer as well. But if it does remain as limited to town, I propose that the jobs should be renamed "Serf". It would certainly be more suited for the role it is given. Not farming, but specifically working the fields for the lord.


Job Imbalances
Several jobs are hugely unbalanced from what I have viewed. Pigmen farms still seem to be incredibly prominent, which could be due to the fact that three jobs can make profit directly off of farming them, (unless they are already dedicated to wastelands only), soldier, monsterhunter, and treasurehunter, while another big money maker, enchanter, levels indirectly off of them. It's a thin line that divides preventing exploits with keeping the game appealing to all. Jobs can make too much money off of pigmen grinders, but alternatively, they are a vanilla minecraft method for enchanting gear and using mending effectively. None of the above three jobs should make any money in towny if they do, and enchanter needs a rework in some way to account for pigmen, without hurting those who want to play minecraft and not nerfniverse.

Several jobs are just inconsistent with how they give experience. Take gold for example. For blacksmith and inventor, many items take gold to produce, but they give inequal values. The best use of gold is to make light weighted pressure plates. Almost useless in uses, but great for experience, 3.5xp per ingot. Powered rails only provide 3.36xp per ingot, and it takes redstone too. Blacksmith is at least equal in it's own job, just bad in experience, providing only 2.5xp per ingot.

Too many jobs have too much overlap between them. This is shown in simple things such as both artisan and blacksmith getting experience for shears, buckets and minecarts, and then blacksmith and inventor for iron doors and iron trapdoors. Overlap in my opinion is nasty. Some entire jobs are just patchworks from other jobs. Hunter and monsterhunter have some crossover with hunter gaining money from headshots on monsters. Add in treasurehunter and now you gain experience for picking up their items too. To bring us to the most egregious sin here, the soldier job. It's useless for providing a unique job. I think it was grown from splitting jobs from their original jobs MaM jobs to what there is now. Each was split into two, and instead of builder becoming builder and demo, it just became monsterhunter and "fuck, I'm out of ideas, oh wait, just monsterhunter again". Fisherman is sort of a play from hunter as well, focusing specifically on the fishing aspect of hunter. At least rancher and hunter have the decency to be in separate worlds, each performing their roles adequately.


to be continued....
 

DragonBlood

Member
Documancer
Sep 28, 2019
39
21
8
24
continued...


Alt Accounts
Going to make this one a bit brief here. I have several alternate accounts, and the announcement of allowing no alts in my town hurts. I play minecraft solely to build, and managing a town is not something that I find easy on top of that. Players need plots, and these take up room, often fall outside town themes, and can rarely be integrated smoothly into a flowing town. So with that, I have no intentions of allowing others into my town.

The price increase of plots certainly sucks for me, going to cost me around a quarter million in the end, but seeing others on baltop, and my own meager savings, it's not impossible. The main reason of course for this is due to the fact that I've gained a little over 15,000 in the month I've been playing. Not a ton, but when you look at the 6 flawless diamonds that I have right now, it's pretty clear that the 14 stacks of flawless diamonds is going to take longer than in order to even get the plots in the first place. It will probably take a decade of playing before I get a consistent amount of those.

So while reducing plot cost per town member does indeed provide benefits for the town, it's dwarfed by the pre-existing benefits other town members provide. It'll take me around a year and a half of casual playing for me to afford all my claims, it will take me more than a decade of casual playing to collect those diamonds. A reduction in the year and a half plot prices will not be but a grain of sand compared to the desert that the already existing reduce in years that more players on diamond duty produces.

Quite simply, you are sweetening a bag of sugar.

I do not feel that this justifies the ban of alts from towns. Like I said above, the benefits provided is basically nothing compared to what real people do. Also, by banning alts in towns, it just encourages me to make 5 towns instead of focusing on my 1.


Voting
This is currently just not effective. The random drops of loot from voting is nice eye candy, however I feel that it really harms the economy in the long run. It provides rare drops so much more easily than collecting for a few hours. This may not be true for those that grind each day, but playing only a few hours daily I've gotten the majority of my wealth through voting exclusively.

The randomized loot is cool and all, but I feel it also makes it harder to vote in a direction of your choosing. There used to be a multitude of voting sites, and they would provide a vast amount of voting points a day. This allowed you to focus in on specific items that you really wanted to get your hands on, whether this be a tome, or a player head. However, it also provided the slot machines that would allow for random items. It provided the best of both worlds. It allowed for the randomized drops that are available now, but also gave the choice of getting specific things.

I truly believe that the randomized drops currently are the inferior choice in using votes, and that an increase in voting points is acquired with the choice of gambling it or not. If the goal of the current voting was to prevent inflation in the economy, it's not working. If it was only to increase visibility of votes to players within the server, I guess it does that job quite nicely.


Glass of Skills
Pretty happy with a new take on abilities and such. It's a pain in the resources to level some, but it's only been one month, and I've made good progress on those, so not too much to complain about with that. However, it would be really nice to have an intuitive guide to finding out about glass of skills info. Without looking at announcements, I would have no clue what anything did. Focus on making the information available before adding new perks.



Conclusion
  • Re-evaluate Farmer to be a farmer, or just rename it to Serf
  • Remove Soldier, as well as remove overlap between other jobs
  • Rethink the banning of alts and the benefits of adding new players
  • Replace the voting system
  • Provide as much information to the player as possible

Extra notes
  • Miner may need corrected to only wastelands
  • Gold and Iron xp/money between Inventor and Blacksmith needs to be made equal, both between the jobs and in the jobs
  • In /rewards the price for buying extra plots increases when you buy 100 plots compared to 10. 100 plots needs to be reduced in points cost to 900.

That's all for now, thanks for reading, or at least reading this if you skipped the rest.
~DragonBlood
 

EnderTeddy

Member
Documancer
Sep 26, 2019
57
22
8
Damn, great overall post. Glad I read it.
I got some things to say on voting myself...

So, how it was before, it took you about 22 days to get a huge bag of holding. Yeah, cool and useful, very nice to have, but balanced out by the fact that all your votepoints from 22 days would go to that. It was still worth a lot and quite rare with the old system.

Now, getting that same reward will take you 4 months of voting. (5 points now vs 45 points then). I feel like this goes for all the rewards, they are hardly adjusted, and just stupid difficult to get. Something like 25 points/day (or equivalent with rebalanced costs) would be fair in my opinion. It's a middle-ground between the (admittedly) very fast pace of getting high tier items in the old system and the newer much more long-term system. Sure, very very long term this is healthy for the server economy in the sense that it won't get too crowded with high-tier items... But that's going to happen if the server runs for long enough anyways. As it stands right now, people are willing to pay as much as $30,000 per fragment just to get that sweet efficiency 6.... Nice to get that payday, but feels kind of over-valued if you ask me. If the voting points were boosted to 25 that'd probably make the cost balance out at 7.5k-15k/fragment after a couple weeks/months.

One other point; it seems that some players get a lot of high-tier rewards, while others barely get any... Does feel quite unfair, pls fix. Personally I have gotten maybe 4/5 rares or better with over 100 votes total, while I see someone who has barely voted get an ultra rare reward! Oh and maybe just implement the old system again where you could choose to use the casino or save up points? And then whenever someone claims something or wins a high tier item from the casino you can announce that instead! It makes for great screenshots and streaks of rewards when players go on long casino sessions with their hard earned voting points! Moreover, seeing someone get a bunch of cool items might be an even better incentive for players to vote! Especially if people who vote a lot specifically starts grinding their points when new players have just entered, hehe.

Anyways, this was quite a rant in itself, and I'm not much of a writer, but thanks for reading.

TL;DR:

Buff voting points, we get far too little compared to before!
The current random rewards seem a little skewed, some players get rare rewards every singly day, others never get much if anything.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Pup_Thor

rainbowcraft2

Member
Documancer
Sep 26, 2019
57
21
8
Job Imbalances
Several jobs are hugely unbalanced from what I have viewed. Pigmen farms still seem to be incredibly prominent, which could be due to the fact that three jobs can make profit directly off of farming them, (unless they are already dedicated to wastelands only), soldier, monsterhunter, and treasurehunter, while another big money maker, enchanter, levels indirectly off of them. It's a thin line that divides preventing exploits with keeping the game appealing to all. Jobs can make too much money off of pigmen grinders, but alternatively, they are a vanilla minecraft method for enchanting gear and using mending effectively. None of the above three jobs should make any money in towny if they do, and enchanter needs a rework in some way to account for pigmen, without hurting those who want to play minecraft and not nerfniverse.

Several jobs are just inconsistent with how they give experience. Take gold for example. For blacksmith and inventor, many items take gold to produce, but they give inequal values. The best use of gold is to make light weighted pressure plates. Almost useless in uses, but great for experience, 3.5xp per ingot. Powered rails only provide 3.36xp per ingot, and it takes redstone too. Blacksmith is at least equal in it's own job, just bad in experience, providing only 2.5xp per ingot.

Too many jobs have too much overlap between them. This is shown in simple things such as both artisan and blacksmith getting experience for shears, buckets and minecarts, and then blacksmith and inventor for iron doors and iron trapdoors. Overlap in my opinion is nasty. Some entire jobs are just patchworks from other jobs. Hunter and monsterhunter have some crossover with hunter gaining money from headshots on monsters. Add in treasurehunter and now you gain experience for picking up their items too. To bring us to the most egregious sin here, the soldier job. It's useless for providing a unique job. I think it was grown from splitting jobs from their original jobs MaM jobs to what there is now. Each was split into two, and instead of builder becoming builder and demo, it just became monsterhunter and "fuck, I'm out of ideas, oh wait, just monsterhunter again". Fisherman is sort of a play from hunter as well, focusing specifically on the fishing aspect of hunter. At least rancher and hunter have the decency to be in separate worlds, each performing their roles adequately.
Balancing in the economy itself is an issue with the current job system too.
Alt Accounts
Going to make this one a bit brief here. I have several alternate accounts, and the announcement of allowing no alts in my town hurts. I play minecraft solely to build, and managing a town is not something that I find easy on top of that. Players need plots, and these take up room, often fall outside town themes, and can rarely be integrated smoothly into a flowing town. So with that, I have no intentions of allowing others into my town.

The price increase of plots certainly sucks for me, going to cost me around a quarter million in the end, but seeing others on baltop, and my own meager savings, it's not impossible. The main reason of course for this is due to the fact that I've gained a little over 15,000 in the month I've been playing. Not a ton, but when you look at the 6 flawless diamonds that I have right now, it's pretty clear that the 14 stacks of flawless diamonds is going to take longer than in order to even get the plots in the first place. It will probably take a decade of playing before I get a consistent amount of those.

So while reducing plot cost per town member does indeed provide benefits for the town, it's dwarfed by the pre-existing benefits other town members provide. It'll take me around a year and a half of casual playing for me to afford all my claims, it will take me more than a decade of casual playing to collect those diamonds. A reduction in the year and a half plot prices will not be but a grain of sand compared to the desert that the already existing reduce in years that more players on diamond duty produces.

Quite simply, you are sweetening a bag of sugar.

I do not feel that this justifies the ban of alts from towns. Like I said above, the benefits provided is basically nothing compared to what real people do. Also, by banning alts in towns, it just encourages me to make 5 towns instead of focusing on my 1.
I personally don't get the alt thing. How do people even get so many alts? They aren't generally free or anything.
Just seems a lot of real life resources to waste on getting a small boost in the game. I have no alts at all; maybe you can explain the benefits (aside from extra votes that are actually very unfair) so that I understand better?
Voting
This is currently just not effective. The random drops of loot from voting is nice eye candy, however I feel that it really harms the economy in the long run. It provides rare drops so much more easily than collecting for a few hours. This may not be true for those that grind each day, but playing only a few hours daily I've gotten the majority of my wealth through voting exclusively.

The randomized loot is cool and all, but I feel it also makes it harder to vote in a direction of your choosing. There used to be a multitude of voting sites, and they would provide a vast amount of voting points a day. This allowed you to focus in on specific items that you really wanted to get your hands on, whether this be a tome, or a player head. However, it also provided the slot machines that would allow for random items. It provided the best of both worlds. It allowed for the randomized drops that are available now, but also gave the choice of getting specific things.

I truly believe that the randomized drops currently are the inferior choice in using votes, and that an increase in voting points is acquired with the choice of gambling it or not. If the goal of the current voting was to prevent inflation in the economy, it's not working. If it was only to increase visibility of votes to players within the server, I guess it does that job quite nicely.
I think that it should give 1 common drop per vote, and then doing all 5 votes will give you a bonus reward similar to the current voting things, but with a guaranteed uncommon reward and smaller chances of very rare rewards. This would make voting still have that flashy random chance thing that makes you want to do it and hope for a lucky draw.

After these changes, an increase in the voting points you get per vote would be the last finishing change the system needs.
 

Qwertyqwertzlol

New member
Nov 6, 2019
1
0
1
I heavily agree with the part about the flawless diamonds, I haven't gotten one yet and It's been about a week, although I have a ton of materials and I'm not the richest player but I am definitely not poor. 25 flawless diamonds is already a not so fun amount, also blacksmiths need these materials to craft some of the custom armor/tools, which also cuts into the amount. I went from level 12-25 today doing quartz in the nether and only got about 8 flawless quartz. I can only imagine mining for hours upon hours upon days trying to get the huge amounts of diamonds to upgrade, while I like that not everyone can have a "huge" town just because they have money, I also dislike that items this rare are incorporated into the upgrade system, but in all fairness, it keeps the resource world from getting "cluttured" and keeps towns from running into eachothers claims, which is very nice. it does not make sense to me why it takes 5 pure iron and 25 flawless diamonds to upgrade from where I currently am, those numbers should be flipped. I do understand the huge numbers of blocks, but the custom crops part is also kind of confusing. what if I dont want to make a whole new farm for those items? I can't just go get them from the wastelands...
 

MagicMerchant

Member
Oct 12, 2019
64
21
8
what if I dont want to make a whole new farm for those items? I can't just go get them from the wastelands...
Then you buy them. That would be the point of a multiplayer server with an economy.
Flawless diamonds are quite rare though, but they will increase as people get higher mining skill and actually try mine dia. You will see a lot more flawless/uncontaminated once you get closer to lvl1000 in mining (this is probably what its balanced after).